Could United be returning??

[G-WATP]

While the answer to the OP's question is still no, I thought the article below was quite interesting and relevant to this topic.

https://www.scotsman.com/news/transport ... rt-4644355

Includes this interesting quote:

Mr Dewar even went so far as to say airlines should expand at Edinburgh rather than also launch a route to the same destination from other Scottish airports such as Glasgow

If that's what he's saying to the Scotsman, I wonder what he's saying to airlines in private. Proof, were it needed, that they view the central Scotland market as one for these kind of flights.

Interesting quote also from Karolien de Herogh, UK sales director for United:

“I know Edinburgh Airport really want us to fly the Airbus 321. Trust me, I'm putting a case forward on a weekly basis and we'll hopefully get the aircraft.”

Wonder if she's "putting a case forward on a weekly basis" for an A321xlr to GLA?

[Iain]

Mr Dewar even went so far as to say airlines should expand at Edinburgh rather than also launch a route to the same destination from other Scottish airports such as Glasgow

If that's what he's saying to the Scotsman, I wonder what he's saying to airlines in private.

I recall GLA management saying on a number of instances in the past there was a "Team Scotland" approach which meant they could not speak negatively of EDI or undermine it (or other Scottish airports). I thought that was naive at the time, and this whole article rather demonstrates that. I hope they are not sticking to that idea anymore.

It's clear to anyone with a brain that GIP have been trying position EDI as "Scotland's airport" - or at least the central belt's airport - virtually since they got in the door, but a whole array of people in charge at GLA over many years have failed to recognise that or respond to that. We now have EDI saying they have a surface access strategy to make it accessible to the whole of Scotland, whist those in charge at GLA can't even organise a bus to Edinburgh!

Mr Dewar even went so far as to say airlines should expand at Edinburgh rather than also launch a route to the same destination from other Scottish airports such as Glasgow.

He said: “It's much more sensible to have double daily [flights] before you split services - there's a cost implication and there's a customer offer that matters as well.”

It's interesting he's saying that now, considering he must've spent much of the last several months saying exactly the opposite to EK!

Leaving that aside, there are a few destinations that already have double daily from EDI, but GLA have conspicuously failed to attract service anyway, so he probably doesn't need to worry.

[Clive]

Mr Dewar even went so far as to say airlines should expand at Edinburgh rather than also launch a route to the same destination from other Scottish airports such as Glasgow

If that's what he's saying to the Scotsman, I wonder what he's saying to airlines in private.

I recall GLA management saying on a number of instances in the past there was a "Team Scotland" approach which meant they could not speak negatively of EDI or undermine it (or other Scottish airports). I thought that was naive at the time, and this whole article rather demonstrates that. I hope they are not sticking to that idea anymore.

It's clear to anyone with a brain that GIP have been trying position EDI as "Scotland's airport" - or at least the central belt's airport - virtually since they got in the door, but a whole array of people in charge at GLA over many years have failed to recognise that or respond to that. We now have EDI saying they have a surface access strategy to make it accessible to the whole of Scotland, whist those in charge at GLA can't even organise a bus to Edinburgh!

Mr Dewar even went so far as to say airlines should expand at Edinburgh rather than also launch a route to the same destination from other Scottish airports such as Glasgow.

He said: “It's much more sensible to have double daily [flights] before you split services - there's a cost implication and there's a customer offer that matters as well.”

It's interesting he's saying that now, considering he must've spent much of the last several months saying exactly the opposite to EK!

Leaving that aside, there are a few destinations that already have double daily from EDI, but GLA have conspicuously failed to attract service anyway, so he probably doesn't need to worry.

Dewar is doing what’s right for his business so we can’t complain that he’s looking after number one. And all of the points he makes are valid given it’s all wan market in Scotland.

But hopefully by reading the article in the Scotsman more of us will now see what an impossible task GLA management have if they are to be judged on what’s happening at EGPH. The business proposition is chalk and cheese.

But I couldn’t agree more about GLA’s lack of a bus to the tourism hotspot of Edinburgh. That beggars belief still after more than a decade of me banging on about it. Whatever the impediment it’s time to get the gloves off.

And furthermore there should be a bus station at the airport serving every city north of Preston and every nodal point or sizeable town in Scotland even if it costs the business something to have that.

[Bearsden]

Mr Dewar even went so far as to say airlines should expand at Edinburgh rather than also launch a route to the same destination from other Scottish airports such as Glasgow.

He said: “It's much more sensible to have double daily [flights] before you split services - there's a cost implication and there's a customer offer that matters as well.”

It's interesting he's saying that now, considering he must've spent much of the last several months saying exactly the opposite to EK!

Leaving that aside, there are a few destinations that already have double daily from EDI, but GLA have conspicuously failed to attract service anyway, so he probably doesn't need to worry.

EK today GLA 1 EDI 0, from Winter 2024/25 GLA 1 EDI 1 . . . . it took a couple of steps but I would speculate that Mr Dewar is hoping the next move is GLA 1 EDI 2

IMHO the A380 has clouded GLA's thinking on Middle East routes while Qatar steams ahead at EDI and now carries more passengers than Emirates

[atuk]

I have a very long memory and clearly remember Continental at GLA and attending a meeting when it was said the second service would be from EDI. That both confused and angered me. Why would you wish to duplicate the cost structure by introducing a second service from a different airport rather than amortise the costs across two services from a single airport? Perhaps that explains why ORD didn’t return to GLA but to its main competitor.

And watch that main competitor - I don’t see it too long before QR30/32 are joined by a third service in the evenings replicating the operation in MAN.

[Iain]

But I couldn’t agree more about GLA’s lack of a bus to the tourism hotspot of Edinburgh. That beggars belief still after more than a decade of me banging on about it. Whatever the impediment it’s time to get the gloves off.

And furthermore there should be a bus station at the airport serving every city north of Preston and every nodal point or sizeable town in Scotland even if it costs the business something to have that.

Yes, a lot is made of EDI having a tram link, but the wide array of local and longer distance bus services is surely a big part of their accessibility.

GLA's bus connections by comparison are embarrassing. I'm sure GLA management would deploy the argument that GLA has less pax than EDI, so less demand for bus services, but it's notable that some English regionals with far fewer pax than GLA appear to be better connected by bus. For example, LPL appears to be served by 7 different bus routes around the city and region, including links to large towns like Widnes and St Helens (where it will be competing for business with MAN).

For me the lack of any movement on this issue over many years and a number of people in the top jobs is symbolic of what appears to be shortage of strategic vision and ambition at AGS.

IMHO the A380 has clouded GLA's thinking on Middle East routes while Qatar steams ahead at EDI and now carries more passengers than Emirates

Yes, I think you're absolutely right on that. If we couldn't handle on A380 (or refused to do so), then EK would probably be back up to double daily already - and double daily 77W (or even A359) would be more useful and compete better with what's on offer Edinburgh. Most people don't know anything about aircraft types and don't care what kind of aircraft they fly on, but many do care about frequency and convenience, particularly business travellers.

It's interesting that when EK wanted to use the A380 at DUB, the management there apparently said no because they weren't willing to make the expenditure or tolerate this disruption required to build the required facilities. Did this cause EK fall out with DUB, or move their flights to BFS? Of course not. Meanwhile GLA spent happily spent millions of pounds building an airbridge to serve only 1 flight per day, operated by an aircraft that is out of production and very few airlines have in their fleet. Was this really a sensible thing to do? If they thought that it would keep EK sweet and keep them out of EDI they were wrong, because EK announced their Edinburgh service not long after.

I've said this before but as well as being too fixated on the A380, I think they've been too focused also on trying to cater to EK and that means they've been left with all their eggs in one basket - which is now potentially undermining them. Getting EK up to two daily was certainly a worthwhile thing, but once that was achieved they should have focused on getting in other ME3 airlines and TK, not building expensive, potentially white elephant, infrastructure.

Imagine if they'd spent the £8m on long haul route development instead. Iirc QR were allegedly attracted to CWL with £1m from the Welsh Gov, so what could've been achieved at GLA with £8m would be interesting!

[Clive]

They can’t win. If they had refused to build the A380 capable stand and lounge everyone in here would he giving them pelters. I believe it did keep EK sweet for a very long time and protected the airport’s prized partnership with EK. Nothing’s static though. Change is the only certainty in this industry.

And the stand/airbridges are not just for the A380. It was designed as a flexible multi use facility that can accommodate any aircraft type or two medium sized aircraft. I wouldn’t think DUB is a fair comparison as it is in a monopoly position in the Dublin area and handles around 32 million pax pa. It’s more than an easy sell to airlines interested in serving the Ireland market.

[atuk]

They can’t win.

You’re absolutely right. It’s just a pity they don’t seem able to fight back.

[pushingtinonceagain]

They can’t win. If they had refused to build the A380 capable stand and lounge everyone in here would he giving them pelters. I believe it did keep EK sweet for a very long time and protected the airport’s prized partnership with EK. Nothing’s static though. Change is the only certainty in this industry.

And the stand/airbridges are not just for the A380. It was designed as a flexible multi use facility that can accommodate any aircraft type or two medium sized aircraft. I wouldn’t think DUB is a fair comparison as it is in a monopoly position in the Dublin area and handles around 32 million pax pa. It’s more than an easy sell to airlines interested in serving the Ireland market.

Building the lounge, extension and airbridges was the correct decision in 2016/2017 or whenever that was decided. If it weren’t for COVID and how much of a reset that was for the aviation sector in the UK & EU, I would be supportive of the “special relationship” GLA seem to have with EK……but, I’m no longer of that opinion.
EK seem to get what they want out of Glasgow and give virtually nothing in return as far as I can tell. Prices are sky high and passengers are being rinsed on this route. The A380 is an absolute pain in the arse and the amount of time and effort that’s spent continuing to make it work at the expense of the other airlines seems unjustifiable at this point. Loyalty is great but I’m of the opinion that goes both ways, and adding another Scottish route at the expense of our 2nd flight was a particularly low blow. So, it’s high time GLA sought out competitors. EK go up against multiple similar airlines all over the world at similar airports, time to put business first. That’s what EK do. 2 years of record profits were not achieved by being nice and rewarding loyalty, they’re ruthless (ask the thousands of crew they sacked with no notice in early 2020). They go where the money is and where they get the margins they want. Simple as that.

[Iain]

Undoubtedly we're looking at it with the benefit of hindsight, the decision to build those facilities a number of years ago was quite possibly the correct one at the time. However, looking back now it appears more debateable.

What I think was always questionable is the failure to get in any other middle eastern airlines to compete, as there was surely always a risk of EK not paying back any loyalty.

Of the top of my head, I can only think of GLA, NCL, BLQ and MLA as airports in Europe that have EK, but no other ME3 service - and only GLA and NCL have EK, but no other ME3 or TK.