American Airlines

[Iain]

EDI didn’t have the infrastructure Iain, in any of the timeframes you mentioned. If it had in 1990 when the PIK tx monopoly was rescinded then we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

The timeframe I specifically referred to was "5, 10, 15, 20 years ago". Given that EDI has had tx flights for 20yrs the suggestion that it didn't have the infrastructure to handle them over exactly that period isn't really credible.

They've been handling daily ME3 widebodies since 2014, so they've had the infrastructure for wide bodies for plenty time too.

They haven't suddenly acquired these facilities in the last 5 years, but most of GLA's N American route network has suddenly vanished in that timeframe.

At the risk of sounding really patronising and preachy I think it would help if people reassessed their expectations for the airport. You're just going to cause more frustration and angst for yourselves and expect management to deliver things that they probably can't because of what existed before or how market conditions used to be. There is decent enough demand here to the US compared to say provincial cities in England, but American, Delta etc just don't care and see it all as one market

They didn't see it as all one market 5 years ago though.

Why is that? Has there been some massive piece of transport infrastructure built that has made it much easier to get from Glasgow to EDI? No.

Its happened cause EDI have managed to persuade the airlines to see it as one market, despite the fact they clearly haven't seen it as that previously and in some cases have served both airports for years. It's happened because of EDI's strategy - which has been clear for all to see for years - and the abysmal failure of those in charge at GLA to counter it.

As for reassessing our expectations, tbh I think that's the route to managed decline. As FlyGLA pointed out, there is a significant demonstrated demand for flights between GLA and N America that has been relocated eastwards by some mildly crafty actions by GIP combined with AGS incompetence. I don't see why we should accept that and not look to get the traffic back.

Indeed, the reassessment of expectstions to managed decline is already apparent and also demonstrates GLA's poor performance is not just in relation to EDI, but other English regionals too.

15-20yrs ago GLA was ahead of EDI and in competition with BHX and (at a stretch) MAN. Airports like BRS were way behind GLA in service and pax numbers. Now, EDI and BHX are out of sight, BRS has streaked past us, airports like BFS are catching up and others like LBA and LPL have a bunch of international routes that GLA doesn't. 20yrs ago GLA dreamed of being like MAN, now we dream of being able to have the sames routes as BRS. That's decline right there.

[Bearsden]

To underline the comments above comparing 2024 to 2018
Airport 2024 2018 Change % Change
HEATHROW 81,919,293 80,100,311 1,818,982 2%
GATWICK 42,317,824 46,081,327 -3,763,503 -8%
MANCHESTER 29,405,815 28,254,970 1,150,845 4%
STANSTED 29,007,071 27,995,121 1,011,950 4%
LUTON 16,642,979 16,766,552 -123,573 -1%
EDINBURGH 15,140,104 14,291,811 848,293 6%
BIRMINGHAM 12,242,019 12,454,642 -212,623 -2%
BRISTOL 10,339,760 8,696,653 1,643,107 19%
GLASGOW 7,683,075 9,652,516 -1,969,441 -20%
BELFAST INTERNATIONAL 6,384,734 6,268,953 115,781 2%
NEWCASTLE 4,994,191 5,332,238 -338,047 -6%
LIVERPOOL (JOHN LENNON) 4,619,971 5,042,312 -422,341 -8%
EAST MIDLANDS INTERNATIONAL 4,146,203 4,873,757 -727,554 -15%
LEEDS BRADFORD 4,120,159 4,037,686 82,473 2%
LONDON CITY 3,460,499 4,820,292 -1,359,793 -28%
BELFAST CITY (GEORGE BEST) 2,298,886 2,510,294 -211,408 -8%
ABERDEEN 2,248,471 3,055,995 -807,524 -26%
BOURNEMOUTH 1,025,184 674,972 350,212 52%
CARDIFF WALES 868,194 1,579,204 -711,010 -45%
SOUTHAMPTON 801,454 1,990,930 -1,189,476 -60%

[bill]

The timeframe I specifically referred to was "5, 10, 15, 20 years ago". Given that EDI has had tx flights for 20yrs the suggestion that it didn't have the infrastructure to handle them over exactly that period isn't really credible.

They've been handling daily ME3 widebodies since 2014, so they've had the infrastructure for wide bodies for plenty time too.

They haven't suddenly acquired these facilities in the last 5 years, but most of GLA's N American route network has suddenly vanished in that timeframe.



They didn't see it as all one market 5 years ago though.

Why is that? Has there been some massive piece of transport infrastructure built that has made it much easier to get from Glasgow to EDI? No.

Its happened cause EDI have managed to persuade the airlines to see it as one market, despite the fact they clearly haven't seen it as that previously and in some cases have served both airports for years. It's happened because of EDI's strategy - which has been clear for all to see for years - and the abysmal failure of those in charge at GLA to counter it.

As for reassessing our expectations, tbh I think that's the route to managed decline. As FlyGLA pointed out, there is a significant demonstrated demand for flights between GLA and N America that has been relocated eastwards by some mildly crafty actions by GIP combined with AGS incompetence. I don't see why we should accept that and not look to get the traffic back.

Indeed, the reassessment of expectstions to managed decline is already apparent and also demonstrates GLA's poor performance is not just in relation to EDI, but other English regionals too.

15-20yrs ago GLA was ahead of EDI and in competition with BHX and (at a stretch) MAN. Airports like BRS were way behind GLA in service and pax numbers. Now, EDI and BHX are out of sight, BRS has streaked past us, airports like BFS are catching up and others like LBA and LPL have a bunch of international routes that GLA doesn't. 20yrs ago GLA dreamed of being like MAN, now we dream of being able to have the sames routes as BRS. That's decline right there.

Probably the best post on this forum. Very, very hard to argue against these well made and well thought out points.Well played Iain, take a bow sir!

[southflyer]

As far as what GLA still has that EDI wants or doesn't have:

Transat - Long standing relationship with GLA, congested TATL market at EDI and large WOS diaspora in Canada. Never been any public rumblings of them wanting out.

Icelandair - Been rumoured for years they would move East but have yet to. Perhaps see EDI also as squeezed at this point and GLA as underserved.

Emirates - Now back at EDI and I think that will be who they most aggressively court in terms of taking what continues to operate in the West. By far the biggest name operator, lots of high yielding passengers who will spend cash in and around the airport. GLA could also probably lean on Turkish as leverage if the pressure really heightens and tbf, Emirates have proven to be far more sustainable from the likes of GLA, NCL etc than what the US airlines were so I'm more confident about them staying long term.

Edit: Also forgot they don't have BA to LGW since covid. I'm not sure how they feel about that given EZY serve it directly and that connecting traffic would eat into their long haul stuff a wee bit I'd imagine. Don't they call GLA-LGW the mickey express or something btw?

I would imagine much of Transat's traffic is low-yield VFR. They are effectively Canada's leisure airline. EDI already serve three Canadian cities with two of the most lucrative carriers. I doubt they'll have any real interest in poaching Transat.

Icelandair have had slots at EDI for a couple of years now IIRC. Frankly what it would add to EDI's connection portfolio would be slim pickings other than perhaps some slightly more competitive pricing on some routes. It would however serve as a more prominent and regular link to Iceland.

EK are going anywhere soon and I think the second daily will return as soon as aircraft and crew become available. The addition of TK would only accelerate that IMO.

BA have resumed LGW from EDI, abeit once per week with Cityflyer. No doubt MCO is the biggest onward destination on GLA-LGW but it also serves the likes of TPA, LAS, CUN and various Caribbean airports, all of which EDI has various connection options to that GLA doesn't.

[Clive]

EDI didn’t have the infrastructure Iain, in any of the timeframes you mentioned. If it had in 1990 when the PIK tx monopoly was rescinded then we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

The timeframe I specifically referred to was "5, 10, 15, 20 years ago". Given that EDI has had tx flights for 20yrs the suggestion that it didn't have the infrastructure to handle them over exactly that period isn't really credible.

You know what I mean. It was a 757 20 years ago. They have expanded the infrastructure over the years to now be able to handle multiple wide bodies at once. But as I say if they had any capability 34 years ago when Transatlantic airlines became free to use any Scottish airport they liked we wouldn’t be having this conversation especially as it turns out to be all the one market.

I know folk don’t like this comparison but North American airlines to serve the city of Barcelona will not give GRO a second thought. They’ll go straight to BCN.

[southflyer]

That's a pretty bizarre comparison given that GRO is to BCN what PIK is to GLA.

[Clive]

That's a pretty bizarre comparison given that GRO is to BCN what PIK is to GLA.

I knew it wouldn’t be popular with those whose agenda it doesn’t fit but GRO to Barcelona city centre is 47 miles and the Omio coach takes 70 mins. Near enough identical to GLA-Edinburgh.

So what would entice a transatlantic airline to use GRO instead of BCN if it’s the Barcelona market they are wanting to enter? Nothing. There’s your answer.

[bill]

To underline the comments above comparing 2024 to 2018
Airport 2024 2018 Change % Change
HEATHROW 81,919,293 80,100,311 1,818,982 2%
GATWICK 42,317,824 46,081,327 -3,763,503 -8%
MANCHESTER 29,405,815 28,254,970 1,150,845 4%
STANSTED 29,007,071 27,995,121 1,011,950 4%
LUTON 16,642,979 16,766,552 -123,573 -1%
EDINBURGH 15,140,104 14,291,811 848,293 6%
BIRMINGHAM 12,242,019 12,454,642 -212,623 -2%
BRISTOL 10,339,760 8,696,653 1,643,107 19%
GLASGOW 7,683,075 9,652,516 -1,969,441 -20%
BELFAST INTERNATIONAL 6,384,734 6,268,953 115,781 2%
NEWCASTLE 4,994,191 5,332,238 -338,047 -6%
LIVERPOOL (JOHN LENNON) 4,619,971 5,042,312 -422,341 -8%
EAST MIDLANDS INTERNATIONAL 4,146,203 4,873,757 -727,554 -15%
LEEDS BRADFORD 4,120,159 4,037,686 82,473 2%
LONDON CITY 3,460,499 4,820,292 -1,359,793 -28%
BELFAST CITY (GEORGE BEST) 2,298,886 2,510,294 -211,408 -8%
ABERDEEN 2,248,471 3,055,995 -807,524 -26%
BOURNEMOUTH 1,025,184 674,972 350,212 52%
CARDIFF WALES 868,194 1,579,204 -711,010 -45%
SOUTHAMPTON 801,454 1,990,930 -1,189,476 -60%

Good post Bearsden. I can't believe that Belfast's two airports combined are 1 million pax ahead of GLA, or maybe I can. If anyone wants to add the GLA/PIK numbers feel free. I'd wager Belfast is still ahead. NCL will overtake us next

[Darren10]

To underline the comments above comparing 2024 to 2018
Airport 2024 2018 Change % Change
HEATHROW 81,919,293 80,100,311 1,818,982 2%
GATWICK 42,317,824 46,081,327 -3,763,503 -8%
MANCHESTER 29,405,815 28,254,970 1,150,845 4%
STANSTED 29,007,071 27,995,121 1,011,950 4%
LUTON 16,642,979 16,766,552 -123,573 -1%
EDINBURGH 15,140,104 14,291,811 848,293 6%
BIRMINGHAM 12,242,019 12,454,642 -212,623 -2%
BRISTOL 10,339,760 8,696,653 1,643,107 19%
GLASGOW 7,683,075 9,652,516 -1,969,441 -20%
BELFAST INTERNATIONAL 6,384,734 6,268,953 115,781 2%
NEWCASTLE 4,994,191 5,332,238 -338,047 -6%
LIVERPOOL (JOHN LENNON) 4,619,971 5,042,312 -422,341 -8%
EAST MIDLANDS INTERNATIONAL 4,146,203 4,873,757 -727,554 -15%
LEEDS BRADFORD 4,120,159 4,037,686 82,473 2%
LONDON CITY 3,460,499 4,820,292 -1,359,793 -28%
BELFAST CITY (GEORGE BEST) 2,298,886 2,510,294 -211,408 -8%
ABERDEEN 2,248,471 3,055,995 -807,524 -26%
BOURNEMOUTH 1,025,184 674,972 350,212 52%
CARDIFF WALES 868,194 1,579,204 -711,010 -45%
SOUTHAMPTON 801,454 1,990,930 -1,189,476 -60%

That's a catastrophic failure by AGS across their full UK operation. -60% at SOU ...

[southflyer]

That's a pretty bizarre comparison given that GRO is to BCN what PIK is to GLA.

I knew it wouldn’t be popular with those whose agenda it doesn’t fit but GRO to Barcelona city centre is 47 miles and the Omio coach takes 70 mins. Near enough identical to GLA-Edinburgh.

So what would entice a transatlantic airline to use GRO instead of BCN if it’s the Barcelona market they are wanting to enter? Nothing. There’s your answer.

It's got nothing to do with agenda and everything to do with logic. GRO doesn't serve the largest city in Spain, it's merely a small airport close to a big city served predominantly by Ryanair.

It's like asking why anyone flies to CDG when BVA is just up the road with a bus link...