EGPF Forum

The French Government have yesterday announced they will contribute up to £3.4bn of state aid to the carrier increasing its stake to 29.9%; however KLM will see its take in the joint venture fall from its current 14%.

The deal comes with strings though: Air France will have to relinquish 18 slot pairs at Paris Orly, it’s long held bastion of anti competitiveness, which will see competitors enter the marketplace. Orly is the main base of Transavia France who already face stiff competition from SNCF on domestic routes, some previously transfers from loss making Air France, and I’ve always said if Ryanair enter the Paris market they would make mincemeat of AF. It’s not impossible that they could with a combination of domestic and North African routes where Ryanair has built up a sizeable network from Brussels Charleroi.

Time shall. One of my many favourite quotes is “there is no misfortune too small to befall the French.” This time it’s KLM I feel sorry for in this marriage made in hell with few signs of an escape route, if any.

You prod a tiger with a stick, its likely to bite you. KLM made the decisoin with eyes wide open. Tough titty. Thats the rules of the jungle my boy.

****decision****

hads wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:02 pm You prod a tiger with a stick, its likely to bite you. KLM made the decisoin with eyes wide open. Tough titty. Thats the rules of the jungle my boy.

Agreed, marry in haste repent at leisure. Mind you a divorce? Stranger things have happened and judging by the intense dislike, almost hatred, of Dutch vs German another future Oneworld member?

That really would set the cat amongst the pigeons. It might even bring AA back to Glasgow leaving DL to concentrate on CDG with KL/AA/EI/LVL in AMS.

ps I’m the tiger... I may be born under the sign of the lion but I’ve more than earned my stripes

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerosp ... 021-07-12/

Airfrance-KLM has put out a tender for 160 aircraft to Boeing and Airbus, to replace 737's for KLM and Transavia.

rjon wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 11:14 pm https://www.reuters.com/business/aerosp ... 021-07-12/

Airfrance-KLM has put out a tender for 160 aircraft to Boeing and Airbus, to replace 737's for KLM and Transavia.

Bet they go for the max ... similar to current 737 fleet , less retaining and entire fleet change cost

Aren't the French government making moves to ban internal flying where a rail route alternative exists ? SNCF are bound to win out over AF.

Allen McL wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 9:34 am Aren't the French government making moves to ban internal flying where a rail route alternative exists ? SNCF are bound to win out over AF.

Yes you’re correct if I’m right I think the threshold is around two hours. Any train journey of two hours or less will replace domestic flight connections. That means the South of France could retain air links from BOD, MRS and NCE to CDG. Regional connections to from LYS will be decimated and anyone want an Orly slot? Tuppence a time! It’s ironic that the same French government which used every protectionist rule in the book to block competition at ORY should be the catalyst of its demise.

AF will just transfer any spare Orly slots to Transavia for European or North African short haul service (barring any forced divestures due to COVID relief funding). For Easyjet, Vueling etc, Orly slots will probably remain rather sought after. (I won't say valuable as I don't think they are ever traded in the way LHR slots are)

What's more I think the number of currently served destinations from Orly within the rail travel time limit is relatively small. IIRC Orly-Marseilles (3 hour+ train), Nice (5+ hour train) and Toulouse (4+ hour plus train) for example are unaffected (big trunk domestic routes), and for obvious reasons ORY-Corsica isn't impacted.

It's a headline grabbing policy but the impact isn't massive