Edinburgh

[buddyboy]

[quote=Iain post_id=10706 time=<a href="tel:1698265214">1698265214</a> user_id=379]
[quote=Bearsden post_id=10705 time=<a href="tel:1698263711">1698263711</a> user_id=72]

It was interesting to see EDI's comments about the Wizzair move - frankly not bothered

Perhaps, but they weren't exactly going to publicly say they were really upset about it!

I don’t think they are really bothered, they are more interested in long haul, they see themselves as the LHR of Scotland.
They have all the European flights they need.

They may see themselves as that but in reality it’s becoming a mini version of LHR. You may well laugh but although there is much talk of US Pre Clearance what is really required right now is a proper seemless Flight Connection for International to International with a fast becoming critical mass of Alliance carriers feeding to from each other.

Much more worrying for folks is the capital city syndrome borne out by JetBkue whose services are all from capitals - London,Paris and Amsterdam.

Nobody is allowed to forget that Edinburgh is Scotland’s capital and Glasgow its largest city. Given the massive housing developments within the Edinburgh city boundary the population gap is closing fast and it won’t be too long - say five years before Edinburgh claims the title of both capital and largest city.I’m sure that also plays in their marketing approach too.
[/quote]

City boundaries don’t come into it. Greater Glasgow is far bigger than Greater Edinburgh. The inner city areas are more of interest to city councils who provide services, etc, not to the airline ticket-buying residents or inbound visitors.

But the way JetBlue did EDI and DUB in tandem - I think that is right. EDI really is going to be the equivalent of DUB on the world stage and it will develop a route network very similar because many of the market attributes and selling points are the same for both cities and both airports.

If we detach ourselves from the tribal aspect then we have to ask ourselves why not? GLA bosses have to work in this real-world reality even if aviation enthusiasts don’t and EDI reached a pivotal point many years ago which I trace back to the day they secured a Ryanair base. Seriously - the sky was the limit from that day on.
[/quote]

I think we need to remember that a lot of the growth is TATL flights is due to the strong dollar v pound. This won't last forever.

I understand the comparison to Dublin from a tourism and attractiveness point of view but historically Dublin has always been the population centre of Ireland. Edinburgh has not and won't be in Scotland. At least not to the same scale. Dublin has a pop of 1.5 million. No other Irish city comes close, the next largest being Cork with 220000. Glasgow has enough critical mass to sustain more services than it does.

[Clive]

Perhaps, but they weren't exactly going to publicly say they were really upset about it!

I don’t think they are really bothered, they are more interested in long haul, they see themselves as the LHR of Scotland.
They have all the European flights they need.

They may see themselves as that but in reality it’s becoming a mini version of LHR. You may well laugh but although there is much talk of US Pre Clearance what is really required right now is a proper seemless Flight Connection for International to International with a fast becoming critical mass of Alliance carriers feeding to from each other.

Much more worrying for folks is the capital city syndrome borne out by JetBkue whose services are all from capitals - London,Paris and Amsterdam.

Nobody is allowed to forget that Edinburgh is Scotland’s capital and Glasgow its largest city. Given the massive housing developments within the Edinburgh city boundary the population gap is closing fast and it won’t be too long - say five years before Edinburgh claims the title of both capital and largest city.I’m sure that also plays in their marketing approach too.

City boundaries don’t come into it. Greater Glasgow is far bigger than Greater Edinburgh. The inner city areas are more of interest to city councils who provide services, etc, not to the airline ticket-buying residents or inbound visitors.

But the way JetBlue did EDI and DUB in tandem - I think that is right. EDI really is going to be the equivalent of DUB on the world stage and it will develop a route network very similar because many of the market attributes and selling points are the same for both cities and both airports.

If we detach ourselves from the tribal aspect then we have to ask ourselves why not? GLA bosses have to work in this real-world reality even if aviation enthusiasts don’t and EDI reached a pivotal point many years ago which I trace back to the day they secured a Ryanair base. Seriously - the sky was the limit from that day on.
[/quote]

I think we need to remember that a lot of the growth is TATL flights is due to the strong dollar v pound. This won't last forever.

I understand the comparison to Dublin from a tourism and attractiveness point of view but historically Dublin has always been the population centre of Ireland. Edinburgh has not and won't be in Scotland. At least not to the same scale. Dublin has a pop of 1.5 million. No other Irish city comes close, the next largest being Cork with 220000. Glasgow has enough critical mass to sustain more services than it does.
[/quote]

It does of course and there’s plenty of unserved destinations that need to be served.

But if “it’s all wan market BTW” is true then GLA is the secondary airport in the region and those who criticise GLA’s management for what they consider malaise or ineptitude have been barking up the wrong tree for a long number of years. Without a rail link to Glasgow and the national rail network and without even a bus to the popular city of Edinburgh the bosses at GLA are on a hiding to nothing. Rather that DUB because it doesn’t have the regional competition It’s like BWI versus IAD when all of the global visitors have heard of and fancy visiting Washington DC.

[buddyboy]

I don’t think they are really bothered, they are more interested in long haul, they see themselves as the LHR of Scotland.
They have all the European flights they need.

They may see themselves as that but in reality it’s becoming a mini version of LHR. You may well laugh but although there is much talk of US Pre Clearance what is really required right now is a proper seemless Flight Connection for International to International with a fast becoming critical mass of Alliance carriers feeding to from each other.

Much more worrying for folks is the capital city syndrome borne out by JetBkue whose services are all from capitals - London,Paris and Amsterdam.

Nobody is allowed to forget that Edinburgh is Scotland’s capital and Glasgow its largest city. Given the massive housing developments within the Edinburgh city boundary the population gap is closing fast and it won’t be too long - say five years before Edinburgh claims the title of both capital and largest city.I’m sure that also plays in their marketing approach too.

City boundaries don’t come into it. Greater Glasgow is far bigger than Greater Edinburgh. The inner city areas are more of interest to city councils who provide services, etc, not to the airline ticket-buying residents or inbound visitors.

But the way JetBlue did EDI and DUB in tandem - I think that is right. EDI really is going to be the equivalent of DUB on the world stage and it will develop a route network very similar because many of the market attributes and selling points are the same for both cities and both airports.

If we detach ourselves from the tribal aspect then we have to ask ourselves why not? GLA bosses have to work in this real-world reality even if aviation enthusiasts don’t and EDI reached a pivotal point many years ago which I trace back to the day they secured a Ryanair base. Seriously - the sky was the limit from that day on.

I think we need to remember that a lot of the growth is TATL flights is due to the strong dollar v pound. This won't last forever.

I understand the comparison to Dublin from a tourism and attractiveness point of view but historically Dublin has always been the population centre of Ireland. Edinburgh has not and won't be in Scotland. At least not to the same scale. Dublin has a pop of 1.5 million. No other Irish city comes close, the next largest being Cork with 220000. Glasgow has enough critical mass to sustain more services than it does.
[/quote]

It does of course and there’s plenty of unserved destinations that need to be served.

But if “it’s all wan market BTW” is true then GLA is the secondary airport in the region and those who criticise GLA’s management for what they consider malaise or ineptitude have been barking up the wrong tree for a long number of years. Without a rail link to Glasgow and the national rail network and without even a bus to the popular city of Edinburgh the bosses at GLA are on a hiding to nothing. Rather that DUB because it doesn’t have the regional competition It’s like BWI versus IAD when all of the global visitors have heard of and fancy visiting Washington DC.
[/quote]

I would agree it is all one market. Especially for US based airlines. The distance between the cities is miniscule in US terms and they think nothing of it. However given the level of service now to EDI and the aforementioned one market I find it incredible that GLA management have lost all US service and failed to attract anything new.

[Clive]

I would agree it is all one market. Especially for US based airlines. The distance between the cities is miniscule in US terms and they think nothing of it. However given the level of service now to EDI and the aforementioned one market I find it incredible that GLA management have lost all US service and failed to attract anything new.

JetBlue was certainly a blow but demonstrates exactly what some of us are saying. Landing fees on offer would have been zero for this new business so that’s not been the downfall.

[Iain]

Without a rail link to Glasgow and the national rail network and without even a bus to the popular city of Edinburgh the bosses at GLA are on a hiding to nothing.

Last time I checked, EDI doesn't have a link to the national rail network either (and neither does DUB afaik).

Wrt to the paucity of bus services from GLA (including to Edinburgh), this is something that those in charge at GLA could I think influence and improve. Yet despite repeated prompting over a number of years they've failed massively.

I think it's unlikely EDI will ever catch up with DUB and have the same level of services and pax. DUB is up around 30m pax currently. How is EDI going to more than double it's pax numbers?.....and if that's easily achievable in Central Scotland then GLA should be also able to easily add millions of pax too.

It also seems unlikely that Edinburgh City population will overtake Glasgow within 5 years......and as Clive already mentioned the city boundaries come with many caveats for many reasons that have been discussed previously.

[atuk]

[quote=Clive post_id=10740 time=<a href="tel:1698404480">1698404480</a> user_id=2]
Without a rail link to Glasgow and the national rail network and without even a bus to the popular city of Edinburgh the bosses at GLA are on a hiding to nothing.

Last time I checked, EDI doesn't have a link to the national rail network either (and neither does DUB afaik).

Wrt to the paucity of bus services from GLA (including to Edinburgh), this is something that those in charge at GLA could I think influence and improve. Yet despite repeated prompting over a number of years they've failed massively.

I think it's unlikely EDI will ever catch up with DUB and have the same level of services and pax. DUB is up around 30m pax currently. How is EDI going to more than double it's pax numbers?.....and if that's easily achievable in Central Scotland then GLA should be also able to easily add millions of pax too.

It also seems unlikely that Edinburgh City population will overtake Glasgow within 5 years......and as Clive already mentioned the city boundaries come with many caveats for many reasons that have been discussed previously.
[/quote]

2023 stats City of Edinburgh 552K City of Glasgow 612K.

Given the large housing projects (there are currently three underway) at Ratho Station, WestCraigs and Edinburgh West close to the airport and Gogarburn it’s not inconceivable that its when not if Edinburgh will outstrip City of Glasgow : probably within the next five years.

I understand and appreciate the comments regards The Greater Glasgow area but many of that population travel from EDI every day.believe I hear them, serve some and get feedback “ I usually fly from GLA but it’s too expensive/ can’t get flights/ more convenient….

When EDI as a city outstrips GLA, as it surely will do so unless City Council pull up their socks and up their game, it will simply add value to EDI marketing of Scotland’s largest city and largest airport.

[Iain]

2023 stats City of Edinburgh 552K City of Glasgow 612K.

That's interesting. Can you perhaps point me to the source of those stats so I can learn more?

[atuk]

[quote=atuk post_id=10746 time=<a href="tel:1698425105">1698425105</a> user_id=75]


2023 stats City of Edinburgh 552K City of Glasgow 612K.

That's interesting. Can you perhaps point me to the source of those stats so I can learn more?
[/quote]

Sure just go onto Population of City of Glasgow/ Edinburgh. The alternative for Localgovernment stats are based on 2021 with projections to 2030.

Edinburgh City Council have a massive billboard on the approach to EDI main car park with an advert for your city for 2050!

A wee extra piece of information. I had my retirement meal llast night with members of the QR team I work with most frequently. I finally hang up my pass after a double QR day on Tuesday coming. As I was staying overnight Mrs C came down to meet me this morning and we went into town. On the way back in the Airport Bus as we approached the airport the bus displayed flight departure information. I’d never seen this before and it wasMrs C who commented on it.

A nice wee touch but one which speaks volumes of marketing, publicity and generating extra goodwill. First Glasgow 500 take note!

[Ekally1]

2023 stats City of Edinburgh 552K City of Glasgow 612K.

That's interesting. Can you perhaps point me to the source of those stats so I can learn more?

Think 612k is well under estimated and incorrect ... its 635k and that was start of 2023.. I would imagine its grown since then

[Clive]

[quote=Clive post_id=10740 time=<a href="tel:1698404480">1698404480</a> user_id=2]
Without a rail link to Glasgow and the national rail network and without even a bus to the popular city of Edinburgh the bosses at GLA are on a hiding to nothing.

Last time I checked, EDI doesn't have a link to the national rail network either (and neither does DUB afaik).

Wrt to the paucity of bus services from GLA (including to Edinburgh), this is something that those in charge at GLA could I think influence and improve. Yet despite repeated prompting over a number of years they've failed massively.

I think it's unlikely EDI will ever catch up with DUB and have the same level of services and pax. DUB is up around 30m pax currently. How is EDI going to more than double it's pax numbers?.....and if that's easily achievable in Central Scotland then GLA should be also able to easily add millions of pax too.

It also seems unlikely that Edinburgh City population will overtake Glasgow within 5 years......and as Clive already mentioned the city boundaries come with many caveats for many reasons that have been discussed previously.

2023 stats City of Edinburgh 552K City of Glasgow 612K.

Given the large housing projects (there are currently three underway) at Ratho Station, WestCraigs and Edinburgh West close to the airport and Gogarburn it’s not inconceivable that its when not if Edinburgh will outstrip City of Glasgow : probably within the next five years.

I understand and appreciate the comments regards The Greater Glasgow area but many of that population travel from EDI every day.believe I hear them, serve some and get feedback “ I usually fly from GLA but it’s too expensive/ can’t get flights/ more convenient….

When EDI as a city outstrips GLA, as it surely will do so unless City Council pull up their socks and up their game, it will simply add value to EDI marketing of Scotland’s largest city and largest airport.
[/quote]

Oh dear now it’s “my city’s bigger than yours”. Glasgow’s city boundaries are political lines on a map which don’t affect air travel.