Letter in Today's The Herald

All discussion around Glasgow Airport news.

Moderators: bill, Clive

Iain
Posts: 304
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2020 10:02 am

Re: Letter in Today's The Herald

Post by Iain »

Bearsden wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 11:25 pm Some very interesting views . . . a good read

I've just downloaded the CAA statistics for 2009 & 2019 and started comparing them . . . and not surprisingly the story is in the numbers

Taking international passengers 2019 v 2009 - EDI Up 5.3m 127%, GLA Up 1.5m 44%, PIK Down 0.7m 53%

I'll extract a few more tables over the next couple of days but here is Glasgow's top 15 new international destinations between 2009 & 2019 over 25,000 passengers per annum - and I think their current 2022 status (Piper One and/or ATUK can confirm) - 593,000 passengers in 2019 but only 330,000 based on today's operating routes
FRANKFURT 94,124
MUNICH 46,694 Non Op 2022
BUCHAREST 46,652 Non Op 2022
KRAKOW 40,352
ENFIDHA 39,393 Non Op 2022
NEW YORK (JFK) 38,104 Non Op 2022
WROCLAW 37,360
BUDAPEST 36,588 Non Op 2022
PRAGUE 35,345
ROME 34,349
HALIFAX 30,357
VENICE 29,490
WARSAW 29,394
DUSSELDORF 28,485 Non Op 2022
CORK 26,505 Non Op 2022

One other set of comparatives caught my eye - that was the Canary Islands
ARRECIFE EDI 85,757 GLA 24,070 PIK 30,665
FUERTEVENTURA EDI 69,418 GLA 16,193 PIK 4,069
LAS PALMAS EDI 55,791 GLA -12,618 PIK 16,877
TENERIFE EDI 211,197 GLA -28,345 PIK 58,489

EDI 422,163 GLA -700 PIK 110,100

So over 0.25 million outbound passengers gained by EDI & PIK while GLA achieved zero
Really, pretty much however you look at the numbers, GLA really isn't doing that well. 2022 figures obviously include the impact of COVID, but even if we look at numbers up to 2019 things weren't exactly brilliant and what has happened since with loss of carriers like VS to EDI has made it even worse.

We've discussed at length some other stats that may give some context to that, but imo these don't provide the whole story.

Although I'm not sure I agree about how it relates to the precise relationship that Davieboy was suggesting earlier, I do agree that there has been a fundamental shift away from charters/tour operators to LCCs - and imo GLA has, over 20 years and a number of owners/management teams, failed to fully adapt and make the best of it.

As mentioned by atuk, GLA have failed to replace much of the capacity from TCX going bust (and they were already not doing well before COVID came along) whilst other airports seem to have done better. We are told often that airlines only like to go onto proven routes - well here are a lot of routes that were demonstrably filling planes at GLA, yet GLA couldn't convince airlines to replace many of those routes and capacity. Meanwhile, EDI - where most of the pax were demonstrably not flying from - has managed to get airlines to place the replacement capacity there, so in effect probably relocating many of the TCX pax from GLA to EDI.

Getting more from TUI may well be part of the equation in the short term, but how long will they last? Some of the current problem has come from TCX going bust and EDI capitalising on that - if we had more TUI and they went bust then we would possibly see the same damaging scenario again. As such, I think the most pressing thing is to get more from LCCs, particularly improving the relationship with FR. GLA cannot imo afford to be the only airport in the UK mainland top 9 not to have an FR base. The NCL/LBA/LPL catchments have lower disposable income and inbound tourism, so I find it difficult to understand how they can sustain FR bases, but not GLA.

There has been some discussion here that FR operating one base at EDI, rather than bases at both EDI and GLA is a cost/efficiency saving - and I would tend to agree with that generally. However, if you watch the latter part of the FR Facebook video Davieboy posted it features a Q&A between Scottish journos and the FR Rep. During that Douglas Fraser asks essentially this question if the closing of the GLA base was a cost saving/efficiency measure - The FR Rep quite aggressively denies this and says FR are an "efficient" airline that can and do operate 1 aircraft bases profitably.
Clive
Site Admin
Posts: 1484
Joined: Wed May 01, 2019 8:59 pm

Re: Letter in Today's The Herald

Post by Clive »

Perhaps Ryanair used GLA to “keep (EDI) honest”. If so there is no reason in the world that the tables can’t be turned when any golden handcuff deal comes to an end at EDI.

We talk a lot about catchment areas. Ryanair have a unique ability to create their own catchment area. They can also get people to fly who otherwise might not have. They do this by scatter covering the map of Europe and with exceptionally cheap lead-in fares.

So if we accept all of that, they could just as easily serve the city of Edinburgh by landing at GLA - certainly from a large swathe of their destinations. Surely then a direct bus service would be established between the two points.
https://tinyurl.com/EGPFAmazon

Using this link cost nothing but your Amazon purchases can help me to fund the hosting of EGPF Forum and keep it free.
Sharpal7
Posts: 135
Joined: Thu May 07, 2020 9:29 pm

Re: Letter in Today's The Herald

Post by Sharpal7 »

atuk wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 12:37 pm I can see a definite trend regards these figures and it points to a distinct lack of tour operator engagement.

Whilst TUI have dismally failed to address the capacity loss following the demise of Thomas Cook both Ryanair and easyJet been swift to add capacity from EDI which explains some destinations lacking from TUI such as FUE,HER and no new destinations such as Sardinia, Sicily and Skiathos and Santorini.

Those who know me well will know my extensive knowledge and experience of charter flight flying and that the life blood of charter is new destinations. That’s why SSH was such a success when launched 16 years ago by Thomas Cook and places like Cape Verde were popular once GLA flights were offered.

It saddens me to see TUI let business slip away to competitors but that’s exactly what has happened and the latest is the dearth of Lakes and Mountains destinations offered from GLA against EDI which is cashing in merrily on the likes of Lake Garda (MXP), Bavaria (MUC), Poland (KRK), Dolomites (TSF), Andorra (GRO).

Add to that Jet2 who have offered both Santorini and Skiathos from EDI but not GLA. Both these destinations have been crying out for a GLA departure and it would be interesting to see the leakage in past years to NCL, MAN and LGW where Scottish originating traffic is concerned.

Do we have the right aircraft in place? In the past Sardinia, Sicily and Pisa were operated by the likes of 1-11 and Comets; 119 seat aircraft, and EZY certainly use the 319 on these routes from EDI.
The seat only business has dissipated to FR, EZY and LS as TUI concentrate on packages rather than seat only but Thomas Cook we’re making big inroads to this before they collapsed ably demonstrated by the last return Miami Air 737 from HER carrying 164 home out as against an outbound load of 220 on a 321. A tour operator charter using a BACF Embraer would go a long way to creating new markets: Jerez, Murcia, Pisa, Rimini, Prevezza, Malta, Djerba, Tangiers, Lisbon and Oporto.

If only there was an innovative tour operator around like Airtours were back in the day it would be a different story. Meantime what we have is corporate culture by the spadeload but not folks who know and understand the basics of tour operating and vertical integration.

As an aside the past week has seen the TUI share price slide by around 20% following a share placement to part repay German Government funding in tranches so possibly much worse to follow.
It's sad and frustrating to read this particularly as we are talking about outbound charter business with no alliances/hubs, castles or Visit Scotland/Edinburgh persuasion in play.
GeorgeNTravels
Posts: 597
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2021 8:14 pm

Re: Letter in Today's The Herald

Post by GeorgeNTravels »

Clive wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 9:11 pm Perhaps Ryanair used GLA to “keep (EDI) honest”. If so there is no reason in the world that the tables can’t be turned when any golden handcuff deal comes to an end at EDI.

We talk a lot about catchment areas. Ryanair have a unique ability to create their own catchment area. They can also get people to fly who otherwise might not have. They do this by scatter covering the map of Europe and with exceptionally cheap lead-in fares.

So if we accept all of that, they could just as easily serve the city of Edinburgh by landing at GLA - certainly from a large swathe of their destinations. Surely then a direct bus service would be established between the two points.
I tried to suggest to them a dedicated bus between Paisley Gilmour Street Station and the airport in an email to them 2 weeks ago, the response is below.

" can confirm there is a bus route that is run by McGill's that goes between the airport and Paisley Gilmour Street train station (757)."

I only put forward the suggestion as I nearly missed the bus as the first train from Inverclyde was late and there were no taxi's. The person who can convince them a bus to Edinburgh is viable will have my full respect.
PiperOne
Posts: 534
Joined: Sat May 02, 2020 10:01 am

Re: Letter in Today's The Herald

Post by PiperOne »

As an aside, it would appear that through rail/bus ticketing to the airport has been withdrawn from the new timetable, as the booking engines at Scotrail, Trainline, and National rail Enquiries are no longer returning any availability. Ticketing was previously available both via "Airport Express" and "Paisley Bus". Must check the ticket machine at the airport to see if it is still working. And the 500 still finishes at 2300, despite arrivals shortly before and after that time. Must be a campaign to get people into cars and taxis :?:
GeorgeNTravels
Posts: 597
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2021 8:14 pm

Re: Letter in Today's The Herald

Post by GeorgeNTravels »

PiperOne wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 10:53 pm As an aside, it would appear that through rail/bus ticketing to the airport has been withdrawn from the new timetable, as the booking engines at Scotrail, Trainline, and National rail Enquiries are no longer returning any availability. Ticketing was previously available both via "Airport Express" and "Paisley Bus". Must check the ticket machine at the airport to see if it is still working. And the 500 still finishes at 2300, despite arrivals shortly before and after that time. Must be a campaign to get people into cars and taxis :?:
Attachments
SR GLA.PNG
SR GLA.PNG (15.13 KiB) Viewed 1064 times
GeorgeNTravels
Posts: 597
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2021 8:14 pm

Re: Letter in Today's The Herald

Post by GeorgeNTravels »

GeorgeNTravels wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 11:22 pm
PiperOne wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 10:53 pm As an aside, it would appear that through rail/bus ticketing to the airport has been withdrawn from the new timetable, as the booking engines at Scotrail, Trainline, and National rail Enquiries are no longer returning any availability. Ticketing was previously available both via "Airport Express" and "Paisley Bus". Must check the ticket machine at the airport to see if it is still working. And the 500 still finishes at 2300, despite arrivals shortly before and after that time. Must be a campaign to get people into cars and taxis :?:
From a question about the same issue in February, wont be helped by the emergency timetable in place
Iain
Posts: 304
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2020 10:02 am

Re: Letter in Today's The Herald

Post by Iain »

The airport bus not running after 2300 is utterly embarrassing, especially when you consider the bus from the city centre to EDI appears to run 24/7.

Many of the services that arrive after 2200 and make it tight/not possible to catch a bus into the centre are flights like KL, LH and BA from LHR, which are surely particularly likely to be carrying inbound business and tourism visitors. They're getting a very poor first impression , not just of the airport, but of Glasgow as a whole.

Can someone clarify - is the airport bus operated on a contract with GLA?

If you look at the bus connections EDI has - both local and longer distance - it's like night and day.

I definitely think the bus to PGS should run as a dedicated service that would surely cover the journey quicker than 15mins - maybe more people would want to use it if it was quicker! A bus that goes direct nonstop to Partick then onto SEC and Pacific Quay would also be useful.

As for a bus to Edinburgh, we've done that one to death, but clearly those in charge at GLA are not interested. Given that rail frequency to Edinburgh was iirc already reduced before the timetable cuts this week then the argument for people travelling by train even less valid than before.

Also saw this in my twitter feed earlier:

https://twitter.com/GLA_Airport/status/ ... qih7Q&s=19
Unfortunately our car parks are full this weekend., so there are no available spaces to book.
YRCMIU. :lol:
GeorgeNTravels
Posts: 597
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2021 8:14 pm

Re: Letter in Today's The Herald

Post by GeorgeNTravels »

Iain wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 1:48 pm
As for a bus to Edinburgh, we've done that one to death, but clearly those in charge at GLA are not interested. Given that rail frequency to Edinburgh was iirc already reduced before the timetable cuts this week then the argument for people travelling by train even less valid than before.
You are correct, pre-covid the service was as follows:

Queen Street - Edinburgh (via Falkirk H) - 4tph
Queen Street - Edinburgh (via Falkirk G) - 2tph
Queen Street - Edinburgh (via Bathgate) - 4tph
Glasgow Central - Edinburgh (via Shotts) - 2tph
Glasgow Central - Edinburgh (via Motherwell - 1tph (both ScotRail and CrossCountry

Now it is:

Queen Street - Edinburgh (via Falkirk H) - 2tph
Queen Street - Edinburgh (via Bathgate) - 2tph
Glasgow Central - Edinburgh (via Shotts) - 1tph
Glasgow Central - Edinburgh (via Motherwell - 1tp2h (CrossCountry only)
Bearsden
Posts: 735
Joined: Fri May 01, 2020 7:55 pm

Re: Letter in Today's The Herald

Post by Bearsden »


https://twitter.com/GLA_Airport/status/ ... qih7Q&s=19

Unfortunately our car parks are full this weekend., so there are no available spaces to book.
Utterly embarrassing

What has happened to the long term car park?

It's surely still not leased out for COVID testing? I don't think the whole site was leased out . . . I suspect the bus drivers have found better paid jobs.

How is GLA supposed to improve its bottom line / cash flow if it can't maximise its ancillary revenue!

Its Twitter feed seems obsessed with doughnuts (or is it donuts!) and bars

So you arrive on a late flight . . . you can't park your car on site, you can't get a bus into town, and the last weekday train from Paisley Gilmour Street left at 2235 (if you could get there!)

It's not just passengers who should be complaining but the airlines should be all over management . . . GLA's two immediate competitors must be laughing all the way to the bank!

You can't even book 0600-2300 next Monday - a classic business trip to London or Bristol
Post Reply