Flights to Glasgow scrapped by major airline in 'difficult decision'

[Sharpal7]

Personally, I dont think the Management or owners drove GLA into the ground. Ive yet to be part of ; or worked with a Management team who over a coffee state, " lets screw this up"
Thats not real life.
I think you need to look primarily 40 miles East, and to a lesser extent 35 miles south west to appreciate the paltry offerings available.
Im a broken record on this. To me its as clear as day. 25 million customers available ( normally).
When I was but a lad, playing football in the park. " next goals the winner".
We have a winner. It aint us.

Quite agree. There’s a lot of crazy talk and not a lot of realism. The airlines want Turnhoose. That’s 95% of the answer in 4 words.

So the question has to be: why did the airlines not want Turnhouse when Glasgow had all the TATL traffic and and greater pax figures, both under BAA ownership if I recall correctly?

[Clive]

Personally, I dont think the Management or owners drove GLA into the ground. Ive yet to be part of ; or worked with a Management team who over a coffee state, " lets screw this up"
Thats not real life.
I think you need to look primarily 40 miles East, and to a lesser extent 35 miles south west to appreciate the paltry offerings available.
Im a broken record on this. To me its as clear as day. 25 million customers available ( normally).
When I was but a lad, playing football in the park. " next goals the winner".
We have a winner. It aint us.

Quite agree. There’s a lot of crazy talk and not a lot of realism. The airlines want Turnhoose. That’s 95% of the answer in 4 words.

So the question has to be: why did the airlines not want Turnhouse when Glasgow had all the TATL traffic and and greater pax figures, both under BAA ownership if I recall correctly?

Aye, so different owners for a start, although some talk as if it’s still BAA in charge.

EDI was a sleepy airport back then. I have a BAA timetable from 1999 that lists all 3 of EDI’s scheduled international flights. DUB, CPH and FRA I think it was. This was before deregulation and before the advent of budget airlines providing direct links between thousands of city pairs across the globe that were previously uncovered. As you know it was all hub and spoke before then.

The budget boom opened up Edinburgh’s short break market no end, just as it also did for the likes of Prague, Barcelona and Krakow. Edinburgh ranked with European visitors because it is, without question, an outstanding city break destination. It’s now also the gateway to Scotland because airlines are like sheep and critical mass was achieved many years ago. EDI became the bigger of the two while both were owned by the same company. The one that EDI supporters swore was holding EDI back to keep the company’s favourite airport on top.

Finally, as you also know, when the UK Govt. rescinded the law that kept Transatlantic flights at PIK, BAA and GLA stood ready to take all of these pax flights and a load of new ones. At the time, around 1990, BAA EDI was not even a consideration for those airlines. More than half of EDI’s pax were flying to and from airports in London and most of the rest were flying on other domestic services. The boast then that it was the business man’s airport was self defeating as the mass market is not dressed in pin stripe suits.

But you know all of this as well as I do, Alistair. Fergus will attest to all I’ve said.

[Bearsden]

Personally, I dont think the Management or owners drove GLA into the ground. Ive yet to be part of ; or worked with a Management team who over a coffee state, " lets screw this up"
Thats not real life.
I think you need to look primarily 40 miles East, and to a lesser extent 35 miles south west to appreciate the paltry offerings available.
Im a broken record on this. To me its as clear as day. 25 million customers available ( normally).
When I was but a lad, playing football in the park. " next goals the winner".
We have a winner. It aint us.

Quite agree. There’s a lot of crazy talk and not a lot of realism. The airlines want Turnhoose. That’s 95% of the answer in 4 words.

Let's go back to the original deal
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-29650438

Why would anybody spend £1 billion on three 'dud' airports without a plan? And a plan with various options / scenarios to address the competition and inevitable changes in market conditions. I have to state that management have either been asleep at the wheel or have been constrained by the owners needing a return to shift cash overseas through various company structures ie no medium term 'loss making' deals for long term growth and/or damaging the competition.

The previously published long-term plans of year on year growth were never achievable and probably contained a sizeable proportion of duplication between GLA, EDI & PIK if added together but might have satisfied the individual airport's lenders at that time, but in today's post COVID / high inflation / war in Eastern Europe / environmental pressures scenario the banks will need more, a lot more . . . the published 2023/24 schedules frankly don't add much more traffic (it is easy to have a soundbite that says a million more passengers . . . but what is the datum?)

[Ken1]

I agree with Clive and Bearsden, they put forward a lot of good points on this. On investment/ banks/ venture capitalist ( Edi) …. There simply is too much money out there, so parties will invest in ventures that they really don’t understand .I.e Glasgow Airport. Plus 13+ years ago, I was involved with Far Eastern investors who were 99% of the way to conclude the purchase of PIK for £55m, but the deal stalled when we valued it at £28m.

What is interesting in this group, with the GLA and other aviation knowledge, is that certain individuals are more informed than the financial “experts”. You only have to look at Virgin and the misjudgement of the Barbados flights from EDI and dwindling Orlando numbers, that most here foresaw. Plus Flybe relaunch was a no brainer to all of us , that it would fail, but some totally ill-advised funders with too much cash, bought into the Flybe concept and believed they would get a good return.

On GLA I thing the management are 50% to blame for its downfall, I pointed out before that with the great news EK were significantly improving their Glasgow offer with the A380 . There was the Usual poor show/ up selling from AGS their CCO Matt Hazelwood stated “ reintroducing the A380 is tremendous news for Glasgow and the West of Scotland”. .. what happened to just stating Scotland or also mentioning also for the East of Scotland? I live in Edinburgh and would happy come west just to experience the A380, AGS need to go on a positivity marketing course

[southflyer]

No one is debating EDI's position here and its effect on the GLA, I think that's been discussed to death. That doesn't excuse the lacklustre approach of AGS.

What's shocking is the airport's inability to focus on anything but the bucket & spade market and Emirates. Serious investment is needed on refurbishment, not opening Greggs and advertising it on social media like it's the best thing that's ever happened to the place. They were quicker to announce that than they are new routes. The other eating and shopping options are abysmal. Most parts of the airport still have BAA signage and still use a manual PA system. GLA have turned down expansion offers in the past from exisiting airlines and continue to keep any meaningful Ryanair expansion at bay. So long as they are at the helm, nothing will change and the position as a domestic and holiday airport will long continue.

But yet we'll still get blasted on here for not using GLA

[egpffqtv]

No one is debating EDI's position here and its effect on the GLA, I think that's been discussed to death. That doesn't excuse the lacklustre approach of AGS.

What's shocking is the airport's inability to focus on anything but the bucket & spade market and Emirates. Serious investment is needed on refurbishment, not opening Greggs and advertising it on social media like it's the best thing that's ever happened to the place. They were quicker to announce that than they are new routes. The other eating and shopping options are abysmal. Most parts of the airport still have BAA signage and still use a manual PA system. GLA have turned down expansion offers in the past from exisiting airlines and continue to keep any meaningful Ryanair expansion at bay. So long as they are at the helm, nothing will change and the position as a domestic and holiday airport will long continue.

But yet we'll still get blasted on here for not using GLA

I’d say they’ve even lost the bucket and spade market to EDI. I’d also wager a bet that the majority of pax using these flights will be from the west of Scotland!

[Clive]

No one is debating EDI's position here and its effect on the GLA, I think that's been discussed to death. That doesn't excuse the lacklustre approach of AGS.

What's shocking is the airport's inability to focus on anything but the bucket & spade market and Emirates. Serious investment is needed on refurbishment, not opening Greggs and advertising it on social media like it's the best thing that's ever happened to the place. They were quicker to announce that than they are new routes. The other eating and shopping options are abysmal. Most parts of the airport still have BAA signage and still use a manual PA system. GLA have turned down expansion offers in the past from exisiting airlines and continue to keep any meaningful Ryanair expansion at bay. So long as they are at the helm, nothing will change and the position as a domestic and holiday airport will long continue.

But yet we'll still get blasted on here for not using GLA

Almost all airports are domestic and holiday airports. What other kinds are there?

I’m certain if AGS or GLA bosses could respond they would refute what you say. I’m not excusing them but I can’t really judge them as an onlooker. We don’t know how any other airport operator would have done any better in the real world that they have to operate within.

Still looking forward to SharpAl’s reply to my points as it’s good to get constructive and informed debate, especially on this particular subject.

[southflyer]

Almost all airports are domestic and holiday airports. What other kinds are there?

Look at EDI's route map and tell me if it strikes you as serving primarily the domestic and bucket and spade market.

I’m certain if AGS or GLA bosses could respond they would refute what you say. I’m not excusing them but I can’t really judge them as an onlooker. We don’t know how any other airport operator would have done any better in the real world that they have to operate within.

Of course they would. They'll probably tell you that they gained X amount of new routes in the last 5 years, one of which is still operating. Did you hear Greggs is opening though?

[egpffqtv]

Almost all airports are domestic and holiday airports. What other kinds are there?

Look at EDI's route map and tell me if it strikes you as serving primarily the domestic and bucket and spade market.

I’m certain if AGS or GLA bosses could respond they would refute what you say. I’m not excusing them but I can’t really judge them as an onlooker. We don’t know how any other airport operator would have done any better in the real world that they have to operate within.

Of course they would. They'll probably tell you that they gained X amount of new routes in the last 5 years, one of which is still operating. Did you hear Greggs is opening though?

I had heard Greggs was opening. And they were promoting Stornaway as an ‘alternative’ Valentines Day destination on their social media platforms yesterday

[Clive]

Almost all airports are domestic and holiday airports. What other kinds are there?

Look at EDI's route map and tell me if it strikes you as serving primarily the domestic and bucket and spade market.

You said domestic and holiday. Short breaks, DIY trips, and city breaks, are holidays. That’s a lot of the people onboard all those budget flights to and from EDI and many of Europe’s airports. Indeed the same traveller demographics apply to flights involving GLA. We usually use the terms ‘flying for business or leisure’.

I’m certain if AGS or GLA bosses could respond they would refute what you say. I’m not excusing them but I can’t really judge them as an onlooker. We don’t know how any other airport operator would have done any better in the real world that they have to operate within.

Of course they would. They'll probably tell you that they gained X amount of new routes in the last 5 years, one of which is still operating. Did you hear Greggs is opening though?
[/quote]

Let’s try to keep this more sensible for as long as possible.

All the airport bosses can do is persuade airlines of a business case and secure routes, and a degree of marketing in cooperation with the airline and other bodies. If no one uses those flights they will fail.