Interesting thoughts on post Brexit air industry.

[hads]

What should we call the landmass then?
Approx 67 million awaiting an erudite response.

The landmass is the island of Great Britain.

What I said was neither a political point nor an opinion piece like 1-11’s, it’s just a non-contentious simple fact.

Good lad. Thought you were about to go Off piste.

[jetblue497]

1.It really only seems to be politicians in Europe and the UK that are determined to keep their countries closed and to continue destroying livelihoods. The fearmonger campaign is still in overdrive here, with warnings about the risks of opening up too soon, and of mutant strains of ever increasing lethality.
2.In any case, very few of us will see the inside of an aircraft cabin during 2021, and once we get into winter 2021/22, the virus will magically re-emerge and the politicians will lock us all down again.
3.It is still too early to say that the vaccines being administered at present actually work, but even at that, there is no reason for governments to stop people from travelling. I totally disagree with the concept of mandating vaccination before you can fly.
4.Also,another major lesson that has been learned is that Travel and Leisure are a major source of pollution and a large contributor to "Climate Change". Very many people would be more that happy if the travel and leisure industry never came back despite the job losses.

I left in the points (and numbered for ease of reading - we are all getting up there...)I feel are worthy of further follow up.

1. Europe in general appears to be too conservative (attitude not political leaning before someone decides that this is political) in their approach - just about every country got caught with their pants down so to speak and had no clue how to react. Thus they took the approach they did. Other countries were more proactive it addressing it. Europe in general appeared to decide to slow the spread (that method would just spread the misery over time) over finding ways they could eradicate the thing. They are what 3 months behind in vaccine approval?
2. We will be living with this virus going forward - there is no doubt. A little bit of research will show that all coronaviruses are killed by UV - this one is somewhat protected by the aerosol bubble that carries it and the warmer weather evaporates that protection exposing the virus to UV and air which kill it. Winter will thus always increase the risk. However we will have protection and treatments next winter and improve from there - it will be under control sooner than later.
3. Tying in to the lethality part of 1 - If there is no evidence that vaccines work there is even less that the variants have a higher lethality as they are too new to draw any conclusions. Early signs are that vaccines work and there is a clear "vaccine effect" in play and (maybe due to more and better therapeutics) the death rate (deaths per infection not actual deaths) is at least no higher if not dropping.
4. Is it? Several studies recently point to INCREASED global warming with significant decrease in pollution - clearer atmosphere is allowing land masses to heat more. Damned if you do, damned if you dont?

[atuk]

I’m awfully tired of aviation being branded as the bad boy in the playground.

Let’s be brutally honest here. Cast your mind back to 2010 when Aviation abruptly ceased over the North Atlantic and the majority of Europe due to volcanic ash clouds. It was chaos.

The Pandemic is much more serious than that however with vaccinations increasing there will be more resilience to Covid. I personally think they should mandatory unless exempt for medical reasons and if you’re that bad you shouldn’t be out and about or travelling anyway. I would assume travel insurance costs would be prohibitive anyway.

It’s not a crime to wish to travel and have r&r, experience new cultures. And that doesn’t even take into account the vital role aviation plays in business travel, cargo and Mail. Just watch how much more empty the supermarkets shelves would be without aircraft delivering fruit, vegetables, fish and so on. Let’s face it we live in a global economy. Unless we want to regress to a Soviet style barter economy ( which most wouldn’t relish) we need planes and the airlines need us passengers. I’ll bet these vegan “greens” will be the first to wail about the lack of avocados (from Peru) mangoes (from Colombia), fish( from Thailand) etc, etc.

Tell the folks at Rolls Royce Inchinnan and Spirit at Prestwick they can no longer have jobs because flying is no longer permitted thanks to an outspoken, overindulged teenager and her green theories embraced as woke flavour of the month and hear their outcry.

Aircraft engines have never been as clean or green as they are now. Technology is moving fast and the day of an electric plane may not be too far off.

It’s high time to start looking forward and to embrace travel again. To do otherwise will condemn millions to a life of serfdom and servitude for generations to come.

Before anyone casts me as the big, bad ( Daily Mail Reading Tory) carnivore ( as some like to do) I shop as locally as I can, I buy Scottish meat, fish and soft fruits. But that doesn’t fill a shopping basket for all that’s required. Just think of the damage to multi national companies such as Unilever, AstraZeneca, AkzoNobel, BMW, Samsung if they can’t move goods by air and the jobs disappear in the supply chain like snow off a dyke.

Aviation needs us just as much as we need aviation needs us. Quite simply we cannot live without it! Unless everyone wishes to back to horses and carts!

[Clive]

I’m awfully tired of aviation being branded as the bad boy in the playground.

Let’s be brutally honest here. Cast your mind back to 2010 when Aviation abruptly ceased over the North Atlantic and the majority of Europe due to volcanic ash clouds. It was chaos.

The Pandemic is much more serious than that however with vaccinations increasing there will be more resilience to Covid. I personally think they should mandatory unless exempt for medical reasons and if you’re that bad you shouldn’t be out and about or travelling anyway. I would assume travel insurance costs would be prohibitive anyway.

It’s not a crime to wish to travel and have r&r, experience new cultures. And that doesn’t even take into account the vital role aviation plays in business travel, cargo and Mail. Just watch how much more empty the supermarkets shelves would be without aircraft delivering fruit, vegetables, fish and so on. Let’s face it we live in a global economy. Unless we want to regress to a Soviet style barter economy ( which most wouldn’t relish) we need planes and the airlines need us passengers. I’ll bet these vegan “greens” will be the first to wail about the lack of avocados (from Peru) mangoes (from Colombia), fish( from Thailand) etc, etc.

Tell the folks at Rolls Royce Inchinnan and Spirit at Prestwick they can no longer have jobs because flying is no longer permitted thanks to an outspoken, overindulged teenager and her green theories embraced as woke flavour of the month and hear their outcry.

Aircraft engines have never been as clean or green as they are now. Technology is moving fast and the day of an electric plane may not be too far off.

It’s high time to start looking forward and to embrace travel again. To do otherwise will condemn millions to a life of serfdom and servitude for generations to come.

Before anyone casts me as the big, bad ( Daily Mail Reading Tory) carnivore ( as some like to do) I shop as locally as I can, I buy Scottish meat, fish and soft fruits. But that doesn’t fill a shopping basket for all that’s required. Just think of the damage to multi national companies such as Unilever, AstraZeneca, AkzoNobel, BMW, Samsung if they can’t move goods by air and the jobs disappear in the supply chain like snow off a dyke.

Aviation needs us just as much as we need aviation needs us. Quite simply we cannot live without it! Unless everyone wishes to back to horses and carts!

Haven’t read all this but the first line was enough for me. It’s not aviation that is the bad boy in the playground, it’s the deadly virus. Unfortunately virus control and mass public travel and tourism are incompatible in a global health pandemic.

The vaccine roll out across Europe and the world will do that in due course. I like the sound of the vaccine passport which will enable safe travel between participating countries.

The sooner the virus is beaten into submission, the sooner we can all get back to travel and everything else for that matter. **But not a moment sooner**

Throwing open the borders for new strains to develop will only set us back further, delay economic recovery and kill more of our loved ones. Only an irresponsible government would do such a thing.

[jetblue497]

I’m awfully tired of aviation being branded as the bad boy in the playground.

Let’s be brutally honest here. Cast your mind back to 2010 when Aviation abruptly ceased over the North Atlantic and the majority of Europe due to volcanic ash clouds. It was chaos.

The Pandemic is much more serious than that however with vaccinations increasing there will be more resilience to Covid. I personally think they should mandatory unless exempt for medical reasons and if you’re that bad you shouldn’t be out and about or travelling anyway. I would assume travel insurance costs would be prohibitive anyway.

It’s not a crime to wish to travel and have r&r, experience new cultures. And that doesn’t even take into account the vital role aviation plays in business travel, cargo and Mail. Just watch how much more empty the supermarkets shelves would be without aircraft delivering fruit, vegetables, fish and so on. Let’s face it we live in a global economy. Unless we want to regress to a Soviet style barter economy ( which most wouldn’t relish) we need planes and the airlines need us passengers. I’ll bet these vegan “greens” will be the first to wail about the lack of avocados (from Peru) mangoes (from Colombia), fish( from Thailand) etc, etc.

Tell the folks at Rolls Royce Inchinnan and Spirit at Prestwick they can no longer have jobs because flying is no longer permitted thanks to an outspoken, overindulged teenager and her green theories embraced as woke flavour of the month and hear their outcry.

Aircraft engines have never been as clean or green as they are now. Technology is moving fast and the day of an electric plane may not be too far off.

It’s high time to start looking forward and to embrace travel again. To do otherwise will condemn millions to a life of serfdom and servitude for generations to come.

Before anyone casts me as the big, bad ( Daily Mail Reading Tory) carnivore ( as some like to do) I shop as locally as I can, I buy Scottish meat, fish and soft fruits. But that doesn’t fill a shopping basket for all that’s required. Just think of the damage to multi national companies such as Unilever, AstraZeneca, AkzoNobel, BMW, Samsung if they can’t move goods by air and the jobs disappear in the supply chain like snow off a dyke.

Aviation needs us just as much as we need aviation needs us. Quite simply we cannot live without it! Unless everyone wishes to back to horses and carts!

I agree completely - I hope you didn't think my posts implied otherwise. The CIVIL aviation industry is rapidly approaching carbon neutral - all those lorries "trapped" at our new borders cant claim that.

A bit of digging (funny how some things get quoshed) will get you to a couple of articles about windmill power. It appears that the manufacturing and transportation of said windmills may create more greenhouse gas than they can save in a lifetime.

[Clive]

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scot ... w-23667924

[jetblue497]

The sooner the virus is beaten into submission, the sooner we can all get back to travel and everything else for that matter. **But not a moment sooner**

Throwing open the borders for new strains to develop will only set us back further, delay economic recovery and kill more of our loved ones. Only an irresponsible government would do such a thing.

Then you will never recover. Borders do not need to be open for viruses to mutate. Do you really think the virus says "I am now in Scotland - let me mutate?" Did the "UK" variant come from elsewhere? Did the "South African " variant come from somewhere outside of SA? It will mutate CONSTANTLY in an effort to survive. We have been told that the way to stop mutation is vaccination - if it cant attack the bodies cells it cant mutate. The same process is true of transmission yet there is a reluctance to say that - strange. We will learn to live with this just like all the other viruses we live with now the only question is when - that timeline shrinks the faster vaccines happen. The current number are proof but I guess some could claim that the more severe lockdowns are the cause and not the vaccination program. Except that other countries that are further along in vaccinations have even more spectacular drops without lockdowns.

[Clive]

The sooner the virus is beaten into submission, the sooner we can all get back to travel and everything else for that matter. **But not a moment sooner**

Throwing open the borders for new strains to develop will only set us back further, delay economic recovery and kill more of our loved ones. Only an irresponsible government would do such a thing.

Then you will never recover. Borders do not need to be open for viruses to mutate. Do you really think the virus says "I am now in Scotland - let me mutate?" Did the "UK" variant come from elsewhere? Did the "South African " variant come from somewhere outside of SA? It will mutate CONSTANTLY in an effort to survive. We have been told that the way to stop mutation is vaccination - if it cant attack the bodies cells it cant mutate. The same process is true of transmission yet there is a reluctance to say that - strange. We will learn to live with this just like all the other viruses we live with now the only question is when - that timeline shrinks the faster vaccines happen. The current number are proof but I guess some could claim that the more severe lockdowns are the cause and not the vaccination program. Except that other countries that are further along in vaccinations have even more spectacular drops without lockdowns.

Not sure whether you are agreeing or disagreeing that the vaccines are key to travel and tourism as well as everything else we’ve been missing, returning.

If you are one of those anti-vaxxers or Covid-deniers then I’m not interested in chatting.

[jetblue497]

The sooner the virus is beaten into submission, the sooner we can all get back to travel and everything else for that matter. **But not a moment sooner**

Throwing open the borders for new strains to develop will only set us back further, delay economic recovery and kill more of our loved ones. Only an irresponsible government would do such a thing.

Then you will never recover. Borders do not need to be open for viruses to mutate. Do you really think the virus says "I am now in Scotland - let me mutate?" Did the "UK" variant come from elsewhere? Did the "South African " variant come from somewhere outside of SA? It will mutate CONSTANTLY in an effort to survive. We have been told that the way to stop mutation is vaccination - if it cant attack the bodies cells it cant mutate. The same process is true of transmission yet there is a reluctance to say that - strange. We will learn to live with this just like all the other viruses we live with now the only question is when - that timeline shrinks the faster vaccines happen. The current number are proof but I guess some could claim that the more severe lockdowns are the cause and not the vaccination program. Except that other countries that are further along in vaccinations have even more spectacular drops without lockdowns.

Not sure whether you are agreeing or disagreeing that the vaccines are key to travel and tourism as well as everything else we’ve been missing, returning.

If you are one of those anti-vaxxers or Covid-deniers then I’m not interested in chatting.

Very much in the give me the damn thing and let me get on with it. I am of the opinion that not enough is being done to promote it. And the lack of consideration that those who have recovered from the virus have a level of immunity too - and that length appears to be increasing. Adding the 2 together gives you the herd immunity number. And by the end of this year there will be a surplus of vaccines including an oral version (not sure if a pill or drop on tongue) all of which will eventually be just like the annual flu shot.

[Clive]

Then you will never recover. Borders do not need to be open for viruses to mutate. Do you really think the virus says "I am now in Scotland - let me mutate?" Did the "UK" variant come from elsewhere? Did the "South African " variant come from somewhere outside of SA? It will mutate CONSTANTLY in an effort to survive. We have been told that the way to stop mutation is vaccination - if it cant attack the bodies cells it cant mutate. The same process is true of transmission yet there is a reluctance to say that - strange. We will learn to live with this just like all the other viruses we live with now the only question is when - that timeline shrinks the faster vaccines happen. The current number are proof but I guess some could claim that the more severe lockdowns are the cause and not the vaccination program. Except that other countries that are further along in vaccinations have even more spectacular drops without lockdowns.

Not sure whether you are agreeing or disagreeing that the vaccines are key to travel and tourism as well as everything else we’ve been missing, returning.

If you are one of those anti-vaxxers or Covid-deniers then I’m not interested in chatting.

Very much in the give me the damn thing and let me get on with it. I am of the opinion that not enough is being done to promote it. And the lack of consideration that those who have recovered from the virus have a level of immunity too - and that length appears to be increasing. Adding the 2 together gives you the herd immunity number. And by the end of this year there will be a surplus of vaccines including an oral version (not sure if a pill or drop on tongue) all of which will eventually be just like the annual flu shot.

Had mine today. Not sure about not enough being done to promote it. I just got an appointment from my doctor’s surgery and off I went to have it.

Yes, it might be that we all have to have a shot annually or at least the more vulnerable might as they do the winter flu jab. That’ll be fine. Covid will be well under control by then and life will be back to normal, which is what we all want.